The Cookout

TAILIANNA · 1/19/22

Alot of confusion is around communism due to the red scare so let me just break it down real quick

Communism is an economic model in which the citizens or community control the means of production. With a strong government that is ran for by and with the citizens control. This means you have control over your elected leader, so instead of voting in politicians you have no control of you are able to hire and fire them at will. There is no careerist politicians. Healthcare education housing and food are human rights. We all may do different jobs but all of the resourses are shared equally. Each person is given the opportunity to contribute to the society however they are able to.

Capitalism is the economic belief that the means of production should be ran by the few or the elite or overclass. They then pay their workers a wage based on the market value of that work. This means that the job is only worth what someone is willing to pay and can be depressed by people willing to do it for cheaper. It belies in weak and ineffective government and that everything should be decided through the free market. So that you vote with your dollar, even on essential things like food water healthcare and education. Everything is a store, and advertising should be a constant entity to keep the economy flowing and producing.

Deleted member 231 · 1/19/22

TAILIANNA said:
Alot of confusion is around communism due to the red scare so let me just break it down real quick

Communism is an economic model in which the citizens or community control the means of production. With a strong government that is ran for by and with the citizens control. This means you have control over your elected leader, so instead of voting in politicians you have no control of you are able to hire and fire them at will. There is no careerist politicians. Healthcare education housing and food are human rights. We all may do different jobs but all of the resourses are shared equally. Each person is given the opportunity to contribute to the society however they are able to.

Capitalism is the economic belief that the means of production should be ran by the few or the elite or overclass. They then pay their workers a wage based on the market value of that work. This means that the job is only worth what someone is willing to pay and can be depressed by people willing to do it for cheaper. It belies in weak and ineffective government and that everything should be decided through the free market. So that you vote with your dollar, even on essential things like food water healthcare and education. Everything is a store, and advertising should be a constant entity to keep the economy flowing and producing.

Pardon my ignorance, but how many successful Communist countries can you think of off the top of your head? I also am having trouble finding your definition of Calitalism in my economic textbook. No disrespect, just trying to pick up what you are putting down.

TAILIANNA · 1/19/22

so at this time communism is a theory no country has ever achieved the goals of the communist promised land so to speak. Socialism is however the road to communism so we will need to start there. also you need to understand that white and jewish suppremecy have been ruling and ruining the world for a very long time so these examples may be of counties in poor condions at present. This is because for the longest Nato could not accept a working socialist or communist model as capitalism only works if you can say its the best we can do.

China is the socialist heavy weight right now. next would be cuba, venesula, vietnam, nicaragua, north korea, denmark, USSR russia (before stalin), National socialist germany was arguably on that path as well.

Yea these are the on the ground conditions of capitalism that I have seen and experienced if you have a different interpretation of capitalism please show us.

The Honorable · 1/19/22

TAILIANNA said:
so at this time communism is a theory no country has ever achieved the goals of the communist promised land so to speak. Socialism is however the road to communism so we will need to start there. also you need to understand that white and jewish suppremecy have been ruling and ruining the world for a very long time so these examples may be of counties in poor condions at present. This is because for the longest Nato could not accept a working socialist or communist model as capitalism only works if you can say its the best we can do.

China is the socialist heavy weight right now. next would be cuba, venesula, vietnam, nicaragua, north korea, denmark, USSR russia (before stalin), National socialist germany was arguably on that path as well.

Yea these are the on the ground conditions of capitalism that I have seen and experienced if you have a different interpretation of capitalism please show us.

In your opinion, how could you correct the ills of communism so that it does not end just as all the other iterations. In addition, you have said on multiple occasions that this is the path to success for Black people. So the path to success for Black people is a system that has never had a successful implementation?

TAILIANNA · 1/19/22

The Honorable said:
In your opinion, how could you correct the ills of communism so that it does not end just as all the other iterations. In addition, you have said on multiple occasions that this is the path to success for Black people. So the path to success for Black people is a system that has never had a successful implementation?

Socialism has successful implementations as the system goes. I dont believe you can blame the system for being targeted by a jelous system. So for example if there is a ugly girl who get pretty due to plastic surgery, but due to jelousy another chick constantly breaks her nose. Is this the fault of the doctor aka the system or the jelousy of the other girl. I dont think there are many ills of communism at this time that the other system getting out of the way would not cure.

The Honorable · 1/19/22

TAILIANNA said:
Socialism has successful implementations as the system goes. I dont believe you can blame the system for being targeted by a jelous system. So for example if there is a ugly girl who get pretty due to plastic surgery, but due to jelousy another chick constantly breaks her nose. Is this the fault of the doctor aka the system or the jelousy of the other girl. I dont think there are many ills of communism at this time that the other system getting out of the way would not cure.

I by no means expect you to write a dissertation but this is a middle school level explanation. If you are going to be the proponent of some alternate system you should be the subject matter expert and I'm not getting that from this exchange. So I will ask, how is Capitalism stopping us from seeing a working Communist system where all of the people thrive? The most successful application we see today is hybrid Communist/Capitalist and owes its wealth to its Capitalist tendencies not its Communist. I don't think Capitalism is perfect or just but I don't believe any system is. We will have to iterate either way we go. I don't believe Capitalism to be inherently evil or a bad way of life.

TAILIANNA · 1/19/22

The Honorable said:
I by no means expect you to write a dissertation but this is a middle school level explanation. If you are going to be the proponent of some alternate system you should be the subject matter expert and I'm not getting that from this exchange. So I will ask, how is Capitalism stopping us from seeing a working Communist system where all of the people thrive? The most successful application we see today is hybrid Communist/Capitalist and owes its wealth to its Capitalist tendencies not its Communist. I don't think Capitalism is perfect or just but I don't believe any system is. We will have to iterate either way we go. I don't believe Capitalism to be inherently evil or a bad way of life.

well thats great this is the discussion i think needs to be had

capitalism stops communism lets say how america is strangeling cuba. When the capitalist americans were kicked out of cuba. They put sanctions and embargoes on it to stop it from reaching the communist dream. If not out of fear of a working model why else do you think they would do that. Why does america need to come to vietnam to stop them from being communist. Why are they so scared of china now. these questions the red scare and the propaganda i think makes it clear that the dominant class knows it needs an underclass if it is to remain in power.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBPIyqCbZl0

The Honorable · 1/19/22

TAILIANNA said:
well thats great this is the discussion i think needs to be had

capitalism stops communism lets say how america is strangeling cuba. When the capitalist americans were kicked out of cuba. They put sanctions and embargoes on it to stop it from reaching the communist dream. If not out of fear of a working model why else do you think they would do that. Why does america need to come to vietnam to stop them from being communist. Why are they so scared of china now. these questions the red scare and the propaganda i think makes it clear that the dominant class knows it needs an underclass if it is to remain in power.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBPIyqCbZl0

In which ways did the sanctions stop the communist countries from being successful. I’m asking for direct answers. If you’re unable to say:

“sanction X caused issue y which impacted economic factor b which stifled social system Z”

How could you ever be able to ascertain if capitalism is the true impediment?

Deleted member 231 · 1/19/22

The Honorable said:
In which ways did the sanctions stop the communist countries from being successful. I’m asking for direct answers. If you’re unable to say:

“sanction X caused issue y which impacted economic factor b which stifled social system Z”

How could you ever be able to ascertain if capitalism is the true impediment?

If both systems are upheld by the system of white supremacy, does it matter which one we adopt? Seemed like the world was doing just fine until the Euros got on the board.

The Honorable · 1/19/22

Bmick#8 said:
If both systems are upheld by the system of white supremacy, does it matter which one we adopt? Seemed like the world was doing just fine until the Euros got on the board.

Same thing MLK said. He said the communist want to use our plight to further their agenda, they don’t care about Black people.

TAILIANNA · 1/19/22

The Honorable said:
In which ways did the sanctions stop the communist countries from being successful. I’m asking for direct answers. If you’re unable to say:

“sanction X caused issue y which impacted economic factor b which stifled social system Z”

How could you ever be able to ascertain if capitalism is the true impediment?

um not sure how to break it down sanction by sanction but that would be interesting. The main problems we can point to is how the us makes it impossible to get things like gas and medicine. The point is to as the us krakkkers say make the economy scream.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GksxHD4zkns

As to how each systems effects black people

because capitalism requires an underclass black people are exploited as a whole. so naturally changing systems would create equality and put huge dents in racism. Ending abroad wars because most wars are fought over capitalist interest ie the military industrial complex who does the bidding of mcdonalds seers walmart etc. Stopping this and allowing countries to persue their own developmental path will leave more money to spent at home. Things like infrastructure, healthcare, education, and reparations could be funded by half by of what you are currently paying your military to start shyt over communism.

Another thing we can see is form our past history

we started as hunter gatherer tribes like in the movie moana. Though each person does a differnt job the resources are shared among the people. In captialism each of those resourses would be a store. Meaning the cocunut store the water store the fishing store the sailing store etc.

Jay · 1/19/22

TAILIANNA said:
because capitalism requires an underclass black people are exploited as a whole.

But that’s because of racism not capitalism. A capitalist society will always have classes on the lowest rung but some people are “lower rung” people and are in their rightful place. What could be done is have more social programs so that the lower rungs still have their basic necessities met and that is not what is happening in the USA.

TAILIANNA said:
so naturally changing systems would create equality and put huge dents in racism.

No it won’t. Communism with anti-Black racism is just as bad as Capitalism. Communism does not make racism disappear.

TAILIANNA said:
Ending abroad wars because most wars are fought over capitalist interest ie the military industrial complex who does the bidding of mcdonalds seers walmart etc.

Kemet wasn’t capitalist but was an imperial state same with Rome. You are romanticizing the benefits of communism, it won’t solve the worlds issues by itself. Ok so you don’t go to war for McDonald’s but you go to war for something else.

TAILIANNA said:
Stopping this and allowing countries to persue their own developmental path will leave more money to spent at home.

Changing from capitalism to some other system will not stop this. Europeans think they own everything so they’ll take across the globe whether monarchy or not.

TAILIANNA said:
we started as hunter gatherer tribes like in the movie moana. Though each person does a differnt job the resources are shared among the people.

That’s not always true. Barter systems are like stores with a currency. There is nothing wrong with having a store. The problem is when you steal and kill and concentrate the wealth to a small few which we see in both communism and capitalism.

TAILIANNA · 1/19/22

Jay said:
But that’s because of racism not capitalism. A capitalist society will always have classes on the lowest rung but some people are “lower rung” people and are in their rightful place. What could be done is have more social programs so that the lower rungs still have their basic necessities met and that is not what is happening in the USA.

No it won’t. Communism with anti-Black racism is just as bad as Capitalism. Communism does not make racism disappear.

Kemet wasn’t capitalist but was an imperial state same with Rome. You are romanticizing the benefits of communism, it won’t solve the worlds issues by itself. Ok so you don’t go to war for McDonald’s but you go to war for something else.

Changing from capitalism to some other system will not stop this. Europeans think they own everything so they’ll take across the globe whether monarchy or not.

That’s not always true. Barter systems are like stores with a currency. There is nothing wrong with having a store. The problem is when you steal and kill and concentrate the wealth to a small few which we see in both communism and capitalism.

agreed the store part is not the issue the issue is when the stores are selling essential things like air and water and food and education and healthcare. We are not talking about a bartering system we are talking about a system in which everyone has access to what they need or want within reason. a communist working day would be work for 15hs a week and have free access to everything in the commune. While a capitalist work day is 8hrs a day for a wage you may or may not be able to live on. And then use 90 percent of that to pay bills and other expenses.

Communism will not make racism disapear that is true but it will put a dent in it. Without the need for an underclass and the barriars of class lifted black people will be in the spaces formely reserved for white elites like country clubs. Lifting the barriar to education and work will put everyone on the same playing field more or less.

Likely the next wars would be over ideological differences like religion. But i doubt in 2022 anyone will be beating the drum for the next christian vs allah war. So if not communism what else do you go to war for. If the europeans feel this way and they cannot live in the free world they would be destroyed by the nations wishing to remain in peace and cooperation.

I am not trying to romaniticize this I think its awesome if we can have it out and see which system is better for our race and the world. Every system there has ever been was born adapted and died and i bellieve like mlk capitalism has reached its last days. This was true of slavery feudalism etc.

Jay · 1/19/22

TAILIANNA said:
agreed the store part is not the issue the issue is when the stores are selling essential things like air and water and food and education and healthcare

Selling essential things isn’t an issue either. You have a government issued standard and let the private sector compete. So you can get universal healthcare and if you don’t want it you can get a private option. You can add on to capitalism to make it work for everyone. You are using failed capitalism as the standard of all capitalism but not using failed communism as the standard for all communism.

TAILIANNA said:
While a capitalist work day is 8hrs a day for a wage you may or may not be able to live on. And then use 90 percent of that to pay bills and other expenses.

It doesn’t have to be that way. What if I did multiple shifts of 4 hr days? That brings it down to 20 hours a week. With government created housing one of American’s biggest expenses could be controlled which could make that wage livable.

TAILIANNA said:
Without the need for an underclass and the barriars of class lifted black people will be in the spaces formely reserved for white elites like country clubs.

Not true. If this country was communist Black people would just be socially ostracized and still be denied entry into country clubs. What you’re saying makes no sense.

TAILIANNA · 1/19/22

Jay said:
Selling essential things isn’t an issue either. You have a government issued standard and let the private sector compete. So you can get universal healthcare and if you don’t want it you can get a private option. You can add on to capitalism to make it work for everyone. You are using failed capitalism as the standard of all capitalism but not using failed communism as the standard for all communism.

It doesn’t have to be that way. What if I did multiple shifts of 4 hr days? That brings it down to 20 hours a week. With government created housing one of American’s biggest expenses could be controlled which could make that wage livable.

Not true. If this country was communist Black people would just be socially ostracized and still be denied entry into country clubs. What you’re saying makes no sense.

What you are describing is socialism so your saying you favour a mixed economy. You would like to offset capitalisms failures with socialist safety nets. Not saying that cant work as any marxist knows this is a dial not a switch. Let me ask this then becauee i know you favour coops so social saftety nets for healthcare and coops

Im curious to hear where you stand on

Givernment Housing was that just for the poor or in general

Food
Education
Water

Do you believe these should be up to the free market as well.

Jay · 1/19/22

TAILIANNA said:
What you are describing is socialism so your saying you favour a mixed economy. You would like to offset capitalisms failures with socialist safety nets. Not saying that cant work as any marxist knows this is a dial not a switch. Let me ask this then becauee i know you favour coops so social saftety nets for healthcare and coops

What I'm saying is that Capitalism is not perfect, neither is Communism and neither are the key to Black liberation. A blend of the two could be a really good system that gives the lowest end of the spectrum everything they need to live while providing pathways to greater success and choice to those who want more than the public options.

Greed, racism, etc will taint every system so that has to be accounted for. Communism does not solve for racism or greed. There was still income hoarding in the USSR and in China.

TAILIANNA said:
What you are describing is socialism so your saying you favour a mixed economy. You would like to offset capitalisms failures with socialist safety nets. Not saying that cant work as any marxist knows this is a dial not a switch. Let me ask this then becauee i know you favour coops so social saftety nets for healthcare and coops

Im curious to hear where you stand on

Givernment Housing was that just for the poor or in general

Food
Education
Water

Do you believe these should be up to the free market as well.

I believe that capitalism with a safety net is one of the most optimal systems.

At bare minimum every person will be able to get:

Safe housing
Good food and water
Yearly clothing stipend
Healthcare
Monthly cash payment

In order to qualify, you'd have to sign up for government work, a trade, or academia program. So if you don't want to to go to work for a private entity you can go pick up trash on the side of the freeway, work at the DMV, or etc and in exchange we will give you all of the aforementioned.

This gives everyone a solid foundation and then creates competition for private employers. If employees can quit and not die then private employers will have pay well, have reasonable hours or people will quit.

TAILIANNA · 1/19/22

Sounds about 80/20 socialism

Would you like to end the wars abroad, and what of articial scarcity. Ie the practice of burning or destroying the things that you cannot sell. Where do you stand on taxes. Do you belive billionaites should exist? What of private property? And policing? I imagine you would be in favour of defunding the police and military right?

Deleted member 231 · 1/19/22

TAILIANNA said:
Sounds about 80/20 socialism

Would you like to end the wars abroad, and what of articial scarcity. Ie the practice of burning or destroying the things that you cannot sell. Where do you stand on taxes. Do you belive billionaites should exist? What of private property? And policing? I imagine you would be in favour of defunding the police and military right?

It feels like you are putting the cart before the horse. Outside of North Sentinel Island, the world is one big plantation (and the WS could bomb that Island anytime they decide to). Whether the system is communism or capitalism, the real system is white supremacy. no matter what religion a country or society choose to practice, the real religion is white supremacy. Anywhere in the world there are whites, there is a push for them as a group to dominate and oppress the Black/aboriginal peoples. All economic systems are created as a way to practice anti-Black racism. As long as white supremacy is allowed to flourish, it won't matter what economic system a white dominated society employs. Blacks are univerally at the bottom of every racial hierachy/caste system. any focus on a system that isn't white supremacy is engaging in "mental masturbation." now I do think Blacks should start engaging in a barter system amongst ourselves, but that is merely on the micro level. We will be crushed into extinction if we choose to give white supremacy our divided attention. As the master teacher Neely Fuller Jr. says, White supremacy is practiced against us in 9 major areas of activity. economics is merely a sympton, not the illness.

TAILIANNA · 1/19/22

Bmick#8 said:
It feels like you are putting the cart before the horse. Outside of North Sentinel Island, the world is one big plantation (and the WS could bomb that Island anytime they decide to). Whether the system is communism or capitalism, the real system is white supremacy. no matter what religion a country or society choose to practice, the real religion is white supremacy. Anywhere in the world there are whites, there is a push for them as a group to dominate and oppress the Black/aboriginal peoples. All economic systems are created as a way to practice anti-Black racism. As long as white supremacy is allowed to flourish, it won't matter what economic system a white dominated society employs. Blacks are univerally at the bottom of every racial hierachy/caste system. any focus on a system that isn't white supremacy is engaging in "mental masturbation." now I do think Blacks should start engaging in a barter system amongst ourselves, but that is merely on the micro level. We will be crushed into extinction if we choose to give white supremacy our divided attention. As the master teacher Neely Fuller Jr. says, White supremacy is practiced against us in 9 major areas of activity. economics is merely a sympton, not the illness.

I understand this thought i believe it is the material reality that needs to be changed though how will we defeat white suppremecy if they are able to go anywhere in the world with impunity and take what they want. This is the colonizers mind state this idea of domination over peaceful coexistance and of competition over cooperstion. This has lead us into two world wars and if the usa and nato does not change then we will be in the third. Russia has made it clear if nato expands into ukraine were going to war china has made iy clear if it expands into taiwan its a war. America and nato still think theybare the sole super power. But that is over and now the dominoes will fall as morr and more countries refuse to work in their sweat shops so capitalisms days are numbered the only question is whats next.

Jay · 1/19/22

TAILIANNA said:
I understand this thought i believe it is the material reality that needs to be changed though how will we defeat white suppremecy if they are able to go anywhere in the world with impunity and take what they want. This is the colonizers mind state this idea of domination over peaceful coexistance and of competition over cooperstion. This has lead us into two world wars and if the usa and nato does not change then we will be in the third. Russia has made it clear if nato expands into ukraine were going to war china has made iy clear if it expands into taiwan its a war. America and nato still think theybare the sole super power. But that is over and now the dominoes will fall as morr and more countries refuse to work in their sweat shops so capitalisms days are numbered the only question is whats next.

At the end of the day BMick nailed it. Our biggest issue is White Supremacy and that is what we need to focus on. You’re discussing the differences between a Corporation and an LLC before you even have a business idea. You are discussing the type of gas we should use but we ain’t even got a car.

We need to be learning how to farm, build, mine, etc so that we can be self sufficient and nation build. Focusing on communism is useless to Black people as of right this moment.

TAILIANNA · 1/21/22

Do mans think the half court shot in the nba is cruel or helpful, 1 million dollars if you hit the shot. You have a better chnace of being struck by lightning.🤔🙄

The Cookout

Capitalism vs communism

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