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The U.S. would lose in a war with China

blackice_ATL

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I was inspired by balloon-spy gate. lol

I know that we were all taught that the U.S. is the greatest and strongest nation in the world, but this country is the weakest its ever been and nations are licking their chops waiting for the downfall.

Some of y'all really think the U.S. would end China quickly and that's very short-sighted.
We think inflation is bad now, if China were to sanction US, we couldn't afford sh*t.
Everything and everywhere I go, it's made in China.
If we attack China, Russia and North Korea are automatically stepping in. And the U.S. can't handle war on multiple fronts.
And the U.S. hasn't won a war since WW2. There's a reason why we rarely hear of the Korean War, because China stepped and slaughtered us and crept right back into the mountains like nothing happened.
Afghanistan. the U.S. were there for 20yrs and left with a lost.
and if you know about BRICS, China and Russia been preparing for this day for a longggg time. And America was so arrogant, they stopped paying attention until recently when they found out China were buying their chips for military use and not for consumer goods. That's why the Biden administration panicked and banned chips exports to them.

WW3 already begun. And when it really pops off, I'm telling you now, the U.S. will lose. This place gonna fall just like the Roman Empire.
 

Lamont

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US Winning a Fight With China is Not Guaranteed but Likely Because:

  • The Farther from Mainland China, the Larger the Advantage the US
    • For China to have a chance at defeating the USA it will require the US to go "all in" but that won't be the case. US forces will destroy Chinese infrastructure from a distance before moving closer to the mainland.
    • Source: An Interactive Look at the U.S.-China Military Scorecard

  • The US Has a Stronger Economic Position to Sustain the War Effort
 
blackice_ATL
blackice_ATL
you make valid points.

but remember, it wouldn't be a one on one war. If the US makes a move on China, WW3 automatically pops off.
And it would likely be nuclear.
ground troops are not as crucial as it was in the past.
I think the biggest threat imo would be space. People laughed at Trump for space force, but the first nation to knock out satellites, would have the biggest advantage. That affects damn near EVERYTHING.
But I do disagree that US has a stronger economic position. China is going through it right now, but that's why they're colonizing Africa. And we have the same issues with real estate and middle class damn near non-existent now.

josiah starr

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There was alot, I disagreed with in the original statement. Some more then others, so I ask for your patience if I'm long winded. Please allow me a rebuttal in which I will start Geopolitically.

In a vacuum, China verses U.S. looks interesting but war NEVER works out that way. If China invades Taiwan, they will be isolated both politically and militarily. Russia, EVEN IF they wanted to help, can't. They are busy at the moment....real busy and there Navy Fleet is a nothing Burger. Iran ain't tripping on Tiawan they low key already control the Arabian Gulf right now, and N. Korea wouldn't care (they are at odds with China).

Let's not even start up on White Supremacist.... cough....cough...I mean 1st country alliances that the U.S. have. Listen to me as I type this.....these countries around the world are not about to lock arms with China and agree to a SUICIDE PACT...so that China can invade Taiwan and SOLEY gain economically from the invasion. No matter how much they might hate the U.S., that makes absolutely ZERO sense. It's emotional and silly.

This place gonna fall just like the Roman Empire.

REPLY: The U.S. is at a weak point, no doubt about it. Yet, it will take much more then China to cause that downfall. As an aside, to demonstrate my point....the Roman Empire fell from the INSIDE. That means us removing the bricks from this WS empire, one brick at a time, will be requirement. The corrupted yellow man won't be able to do our jobs for us. Wishful thinking won't trump reality....and the reality is the White man gave China its "world status" and the White man can EASILY rip it away whenever he feel necessary.

"We think inflation is bad now, if China were to sanction US, we couldn't afford sh*t."

REPLY: Your right, inflation would go up. The U.S. would suffer. Yet, the Chinese would suffer far worse and the political unrest within China would rip it apart far faster then the unrest here (Unpopular Communist Party). That's said, don't attempt to overstate U.S. unrest....unease about China's growing status on the world stage is a VERY Bipartisan issue here among the Dominant Society....so don't necessarily put your all your eggs in that basket. White Supremacists still knows how to get on code against threats, both precieved, actual or......self-made.

"If we attack China, Russia and North Korea are automatically stepping in. And the U.S. can't handle war on multiple fronts."

REPLY: This probably won't happen if China invades Taiwan and the U.S. merely responds to the aggression. Logically speaking, none of them are helping Russia in Ukraine at the moment. In fact, China been pretty mum about Ukraine....just comparing apples to apples. Same situation. Don't overstate this "Communist Alliance" theory. China and Russia aren't as close as one would think. Russia views China as a Geopolitical threat and the jealousy and envy between the two is well documented and historical.

The only way this scenrio would happen is if the U.S. invades mainland China itself. Other then that, extremely unlikely. This is why the U.S. is planning on fighting a LIMITED conflict in DEFENSE of Taiwan. Protecting Taiwan from the Chinese will be the main objective, not occupying mainland China or necessarily regime change. You are correct about the U.S. not being able to handle a multiple front war. We presently aren't ready for that sort of conflict, as the logistics for such a campaign are mind boggling and we don't have the gear for that.

"And the U.S. hasn't won a war since WW2. There's a reason why we rarely hear of the Korean War, because China stepped and slaughtered us and crept right back into the mountains like nothing happened.
Afghanistan. the U.S. were there for 20yrs and left with a lost."

REPLY: I'd careful about investing too much into simple arguments like these that are wholly without proper context. Alot ppl know next nothing about Korean. The CONFLICT was a police action to remove N. Korea (the Communists) from S. Korea after they invaded. As of today, the N. Koreans failed, and the country of S. Korea still exists independently. Militarily, the U.S.'s objectives were more then met. Remember, back then the policy to combat Communism was CONTAINMENT in Southeast Asia....hence the Vietnam disaster (from a military sense).

The Chinese ONLY got involved because Gen MacArthur decided, on his own, that he would take his army farther north into N. Korean then he was actually authorized. The Chinese warned him not to close in on the Yalu River, but he refused in all of his White Supremacist glory....stretching his supply chain to a dangerously thin point and recklessly endangering his men. Close to 3 million Chinese regulars ran MacArthur back to S. Korea and President Truman made it policy that the U.S. would NEVER send TROOPS north of the 38th parallel (into N. Korea). Fun fact....the Korean "War" is not actually over....South and North Korea currently only have cease fire agreement, not a truce or peace agreement.

As for Vietnam, that's a total loss both politically and militarily. 1st Gulf War, victory. 2nd Gulf War, stupid war but victory that was a wash in the end. Afghanistan.....stupid war with no real objectives so that's a loss. Operation Justice Cause in Panama, victory. Operation Golden Pheasant in Grenada, victory.

Folks like to cite Vietnam. Vietnam was a war the U.S. never truly tried to win. From a military perspective, the "war" was run badly and had no real objectives. Keeping Communism "out of Southeast Asia" is not a military objective....its a political one. Hence, it was a failed effort from the beginning. A war to defend Taiwan from China will be no such animal. No restrictions. No politicians picking targets and restricting Orders of Battle. No concerns/worries about disrupting the Geopolitical order. The objectives will be clear, tangible and obtainable.

If we are to fight White Supremacy, we MUST truly understand this beast we are fighting. They will NEVER empower Yellow men, Brown men or Muslim men to the point were they become insurmountable threats. That theory is folly and China will find out the hard way if they continue to read & believe their own press clippings. Pride comes before the fall.....

God Bless and B1.
 
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blackice_ATL
blackice_ATL
It was a bit long winded, but I'm on mobile. it's all good. Lol. I appreciate the response.

America is already falling apart from the inside tho. And even though we wouldn't empower their enemy, I do believe China and Russia will take the power.

And even though they may not the best of friends, they do work together. They already been doing war exercises together. For a couple of decades, they have their own weapons deal. And Russia played nice and waited until the Olympics ended in China to defend themselves and entering Ukraine.

China and North Korea still have relations too. China will uphold North Korea because they don't want NATO on its border.

In business, none of them have to be friends. And that's all it is.

But I think it's naive to think America can't fall because it's already happening. And I have no doubt China and Russia and other nations waiting for the right time to take advantage of it

The Honorable

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    I don't think the US would lose to China. The reason is I still believe we have way more military capabilities than China has right now. One of the reasons is we have been doing this far much longer.
    Unfortunately this is no longer the case. China has reached parity in multiple capacities.
     

    RCNAL

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    Any war with China that isn't nuclear, will likely be over China a. Invading Taiwan b. taking over territorial waters of other countries in their region or both.

    China has a relatively small Navy, America would dominate the seas and an edge in the skies but China has stealth planes as well (who we let steal the technology).

    A land invasion of China is a non starter. Neither country can be successfully invaded and held on to.

    China would also shut down America's electrical grid. I've long read they have the capability. https://www.cnn.com/2014/11/20/politics/nsa-china-power-grid/index.html

    As well as cyber attacks but that is both sides, we are very capable as well. In all likely hood, large segments of our internet capability will be lost.

    Finally, the one thing that will shut down a war and force us to sue for peace is the American people itself. The people don't have the stomach for it. When most of us don't have internet and there are routine blackouts and brownouts, we'll demand an end. A stop the war movement will grow. China will have one too but they will shut it down brutally, far more brutally than we can.

    In the end China will get what they want. And they want Taiwan. We are not going to go to war over Taiwan. The recent two 20 year wars so to that. The government wanted to send troops to Syria, non starter. Sending anything more to Ukraine will get half of Congress saying no.
     
    Jay
    Jay
    China has a bigger navy than the US you can’t just assume the USA is gonna run over them

    RCNAL

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    They technically have more ships, but we have the far more, larger, deep sea, long range ships.
    In terms of carriers.

    "As of March 2023, there are 47 active aircraft carriers in the world operated by fourteen navies. The United States Navy has 11 large nuclear-powered fleet carriers—carrying around 80 fighters each—the largest carriers in the world; the total combined deck space is over twice that of all other nations combined."

    America has 11, China has 3 and according to reports are struggling with those 3.

    Open sea? We dominate. Clearly. We've been doing it much longer and have substantially more Naval bases globally.


    We are still ranked number one for now.....from what I understand, they have more 'hulls' (ships) but its small, coastal. Which includes Coast Guard. We have the far bigger heavy deep sea ships.


    The People’s Liberation Army Navy has 355 front-line ships in three fleets arrayed along the Chinese coast. The U.S. Navy, by contrast, has 305 front-line ships, divided roughly 60-40 between the Pacific and Atlantic Fleets.


    Worse for U.S. planners, the PLAN is on track to add another 70 warships by 2030, while the USN optimistically might add just 42.


    But there’s an important caveat in this hull tally. American vessels on average are much larger than Chinese vessels are. The smallest USN warship type—the Littoral Combat Ship—displaces 3,000 tons of water. The median USN ship—an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer—displaces up to 9,500 tons.

    ....In all, the U.S. fleet weighs in at around 4.5 million tons. The Chinese fleet might slightly exceed 2 million tons.
     

    RCNAL

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    In the original post it was said if China were to put sanctions on us. That would be the old saying, cutting of your nose to spite your face. That would run them into a huge recession bordering on depression. They are the 2nd biggest buyers of US debt. They would lose a lot of trade from what they sell.

    I think the question would be better if we know the reason for the war. Just straight up 2 bullies that gotta get it on? Stalemate if a conventional war, both lose if nuclear. We don't have the people to invade China and China couldn't get anywhere near us Naval wise to get their troops on the ground.
    America has the bigger Air Force Largest Air Forces in the World 2023
    but both have stealth capabilities so not as big of an advantage but big enough.

    If we went to Asia, we'd lose in terms of us taking over any land. So, still stand by no one is the clear winner.
     

    MR-D-ROB

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    I'm biased on this. I'm not really rooting against the United States.
    This country is as racist, corrupt and generally evil as can be.

    However I live here. My family lives here. 🏠 I served in the military 🪖.

    I'm an employee with the federal government, so I'm not exactly cheering for it's downfall. My entire career and retirement pends on our government staying in tact.

    Lots of black people are in a similar situation. Government employees (state, federal and city), active military members, military retirees, social security recipients, VA disability compensation recipients and government contractors.

    People in the situations are likely going to put their and their families well being over how much they dislike the country. Even though we have every right to feel that way.

    Instead we are finding our footing and way to make it in a bad situation instead of just complaining and waiting for a reparations check money 💰 that may never come!

    Just my opinion!
     

    B1General

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    I'm biased on this. I'm not really rooting against the United States.
    This country is as racist, corrupt and generally evil as can be.

    However I live here. My family lives here. 🏠 I served in the military 🪖.

    I'm an employee with the federal government, so I'm not exactly cheering for it's downfall. My entire career and retirement pends on our government staying in tact.

    Lots of black people are in a similar situation. Government employees (state, federal and city), active military members, military retirees, social security recipients, VA disability compensation recipients and government contractors.

    People in the situations are likely going to put their and their families well being over how much they dislike the country. Even though we have every right to feel that way.

    Instead we are finding our footing and way to make it in a bad situation instead of just complaining and waiting for a reparations check money 💰 that may never come!

    Just my opinion!
    If you love the White man just say it.
     
    MR-D-ROB
    MR-D-ROB
    So looking out for my own self interests and the better interests of my family means I love the white man?

    I'm supposed to want to lose my job, my retirement and my entire career all because of hatred for a country I live in?

    WTF kind of logic is that? Miss me with that dumb stuff bro!

    MR-D-ROB

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    I thought this was supposed to a logical debate on whether the USA would win a war against China, not which side you are rooting for? Or am I missing something?
    So, if I'm having to look at who I think would ultimately win out in a war I'd have to go with the United States.
    China does outnumber us by a lot. So, in terms of sheer numbers, they have the edge. However, the United States is going to have an edge in terms of technology.
    I would also think the United States military would have an advantage on training and tactics. Some of the more elite units like Ranger, Special Forces, Airborne, Air Assault are very strenuous and high level.

    Economics also always plays a part. Just as much as we depend on China for things they also depend on us and other countries. Once a war breaks then countries are going to pick sides and most are going to side with the U.S. Thus CHina would suffer economic consequences. A lot of what we lose from China we would pick up from other countries.

    It would be a difficult and long fought battle but I think in the end the United States would edge out China!
     

    Terrymist

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    Interesting discussion.

    If USA and China were to go to war, they would need to go in with strong allies. China would likely have the rest of the other BRICS (with Russia's increasing trade links with China, makes it a strong possibility) as backup. The question would be who would ally with USA, and if no one does, would they want to go it alone. I say this because the UK was one of the few countries in Europe that would go to bat for USA in the EU. However, following Brexit, support for the USA is not as strong among EU members.
    Could USA draw upon support from NATO? This may be a sticky one. The Berlin Plus Agreement can allow the EU to draw on NATO assets in an international crisis SHAPE Information:

    Despite concerns by them to address the rise of China, the EU would still be hesitant to become drawn into a conflict with China.
     
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