ABOUT THE LAW THREAD
- By MR-D-ROB
- The Streets
- 0 Replies
It is very important as black people that we have a base level understanding of the law.
Something I want to discuss is what a lawful order vs an unlawful order is.
What makes a order lawful? When can a police officer lawfully make you do something.
Do they need to have a good reason?
Does it have to be fair?
Does it have to make sense?
The answer to all of these is...NO!
A order from a law enforcement officer is LAWful if there is a LAW or court precedent giving him the right to give that order.
An officer can't demand you put out a cigarette. An officer can't demand you to let your window down. An officer can't demand you turn off your phone. Unless there is a local or state ordinance stating these are permissable they would not be lawful orders.
Why? There is no Supreme Court precedent regarding these.
An officer can however ask you to get out of your car. There is Supreme Court precedent specifically stating this. He doesn't have to have any reason. You can ask why but he doesn't have to tell you right then or at all. Once he says get out of the car that's the end of the discussion. It's not up for argument.
You can go back and forth about it but if things escalate you're going to be in the wrong because you have disobeyed a legal and lawful order so at that point he is going to be found as justified to pull you out of the car.
Does that suck? Of course because police will abuse that. But that's the law and unless it changes it is what it is!
Can a police officer demand you to open the door of your home?
Unless they have a warrant signed by a judge and show it then no they can't.
You should never open the door for police. Even if all they say they want to do is talk don't open the door unless you see a warrant through either the peep hole or a window.
Here's why.
The police knock and say they just want to talk and ask some information. You open the door. The police start asking questions. The discussion leads to them wanting to enter and search the home. You say no and refuse.
The police continue trying to coerce you into giving permission to search the home. You still say no. At this point you say you are going to close the door. The police has now put his foot in the door to prevent you from closing it. He has now started to be aggressive in demanding to search the house and won't move his foot for you to close the door.
If you try to close the door with his foot there or even bump his foot he'll say assault on an officer, arrest you and search the house incident to your arrest.... which is completely legal and they'll find against you.
If they want to talk they can hear you through the door. They don't need to see you too talk. If they are saying they have a warrant but won't show it then the door stays closed.
If they truly have a warrant they wouldn't be asking they'd just kick the door down because the warrant gives them the right to do so.
Another scenario...
You've been arrested for some crime. We'll say a drug offense which is fairly common unfortunately. The police come in and start to question you.
The first thing you do is ask is this interaction being recorded. If it isn't ask for it be recorded and don't say another word until it is. The next thing to do once you are 100% certain it is being recorded is to ask for an attorney.
As soon as you ask for an attorney, they legally aren't allowed to continue questioning you. If they do then anything you say isn't permissable in court. You could confess, give information as to where evidence is and none of it is permissable due to them violating your rights.
It's a precedent called fruit of the poisonous tree.
Where most people mess up is they start talking without asserting their rights first. Then as the same goes " anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law." They mean that stuff!
Something I want to discuss is what a lawful order vs an unlawful order is.
What makes a order lawful? When can a police officer lawfully make you do something.
Do they need to have a good reason?
Does it have to be fair?
Does it have to make sense?
The answer to all of these is...NO!
A order from a law enforcement officer is LAWful if there is a LAW or court precedent giving him the right to give that order.
An officer can't demand you put out a cigarette. An officer can't demand you to let your window down. An officer can't demand you turn off your phone. Unless there is a local or state ordinance stating these are permissable they would not be lawful orders.
Why? There is no Supreme Court precedent regarding these.
An officer can however ask you to get out of your car. There is Supreme Court precedent specifically stating this. He doesn't have to have any reason. You can ask why but he doesn't have to tell you right then or at all. Once he says get out of the car that's the end of the discussion. It's not up for argument.
You can go back and forth about it but if things escalate you're going to be in the wrong because you have disobeyed a legal and lawful order so at that point he is going to be found as justified to pull you out of the car.
Does that suck? Of course because police will abuse that. But that's the law and unless it changes it is what it is!
Can a police officer demand you to open the door of your home?
Unless they have a warrant signed by a judge and show it then no they can't.
You should never open the door for police. Even if all they say they want to do is talk don't open the door unless you see a warrant through either the peep hole or a window.
Here's why.
The police knock and say they just want to talk and ask some information. You open the door. The police start asking questions. The discussion leads to them wanting to enter and search the home. You say no and refuse.
The police continue trying to coerce you into giving permission to search the home. You still say no. At this point you say you are going to close the door. The police has now put his foot in the door to prevent you from closing it. He has now started to be aggressive in demanding to search the house and won't move his foot for you to close the door.
If you try to close the door with his foot there or even bump his foot he'll say assault on an officer, arrest you and search the house incident to your arrest.... which is completely legal and they'll find against you.
If they want to talk they can hear you through the door. They don't need to see you too talk. If they are saying they have a warrant but won't show it then the door stays closed.
If they truly have a warrant they wouldn't be asking they'd just kick the door down because the warrant gives them the right to do so.
Another scenario...
You've been arrested for some crime. We'll say a drug offense which is fairly common unfortunately. The police come in and start to question you.
The first thing you do is ask is this interaction being recorded. If it isn't ask for it be recorded and don't say another word until it is. The next thing to do once you are 100% certain it is being recorded is to ask for an attorney.
As soon as you ask for an attorney, they legally aren't allowed to continue questioning you. If they do then anything you say isn't permissable in court. You could confess, give information as to where evidence is and none of it is permissable due to them violating your rights.
It's a precedent called fruit of the poisonous tree.
Where most people mess up is they start talking without asserting their rights first. Then as the same goes " anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law." They mean that stuff!
